Q: You started in airlines, then you moved to hotels and there you stayed. What’s more interesting about hotels versus airlines?

I felt that hotels gave me a better opportunity to move around the world. I was with an American airline, TWA, and I felt there was a limit to what I could do and where I could go. Restlessness is mostly at the heart of what I’ve done in my career.

Q: You’ve always been in sales and marketing. Often, the two are lumped together; yet they are completely different disciplines. Would you agree or disagree – sales is results, marketing is all bluff?

I agree they are different disciplines. Years ago, you went into sales,and if you get to a point when it isn’t challenging enough and if you intended to diversify further, it was easier to move into marketing – if you had the capabilities, you could make progress.

It is still possible to move from sales to marketing today – this has happened in Accor with some very capable people. But, of course, marketing has become more complex – in addition to the creative and technical aspects, pricing, revenue management etc, distribution has become a whole subject on its own. The relative complexity and dynamism of the online environment has brought new opportunities of taking part in a conversation with a customer. These skills are becoming more specific and new job roles are being created – such as social media coordinators or managers.

Professional marketing is certainly not all bluff today. Customers are smart and promises not kept are not forgotten and there is an impact on the brand. Marketing budgets today have moved away from traditional media to online marketing. Not only are customers going online, but online marketing is also more quantifiable.

Q: Given the ability to measure results these days, is there a danger we could lose sight of the intangibles in marketing? After all, great marketing is about the ability to tap into an emotional source and that you can’t measure.

I think intangibles will always be important. There are rational and emotional aspects to buying and it’s the powerful emotional drive which is more often linked to the intangible.

We are emotional beings and this also has direct implications in organizations. We should encourage that in our organizations as long as it is channeled productively.

Companies should also encourage individuality in an organization. If you don’t have interesting people or passionate employees, you will never have a sales or marketing culture that is creative or productive. But of course it must be channeled in a team environment.

Q: In Arthur Miller’s “Death of a Salesman”, the protagonist Willy Loman said, “The man who makes an appearance in the business world, the man who creates personal interest, is the man who gets ahead. Be liked and you will never want.” In your opinion, what makes a good sales person?

People still want to do business with people they like. It’s not always so important if the product is so powerful (such as Google) and you need it.

But in most sales situations, it’s about understanding the individual customer you’re talking to – to focus on the individual and the needs of the individual. A skill that is most under-estimated in sales is that of listening. Too often hotel sales people are so focused on what they want to say and when there is no relationship between the needs of the customer and the product features and benefits, you’re going nowhere.

It’s such an obvious point but it always amazes me that it happens so often.

Q: Perhaps it’s because sales people are under pressure and they have to fill in sales reports all the time to prove they are “selling”?

If that’s the case, then it’s a failure of management. Pressure should never come down so nakedly on employees. Someone in management should be handling it and filtering it into management direction so that employees do not become emotionally overwhelmed. It can also be due to the lack of professional sales training

Q: Why do most people look down on sales? Like they’d say, “I am not a sales person, you know.” Like being in sales is something to be ashamed of.

In an ideal situation, sales is about a managed conversation with an objective. If there’s a level of shame, then it could be down to several things. Is it a product you’re proud of representing? It can also be a training issue. Professional sales is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of – quite the reverse. In one way or another, all of us are selling every day. You may not believe it but I had a shyness that needed to be dealt with and sales training has helped me to be more comfortable in everyday contact with other people.

Q: Who’s the best sales person you know, or have encountered?

Difficult to identify any one person I’ve met but Bill Clinton – whether you agree with his politics or personal conduct at times – would probably be my choice. He has an intuitive way of relating to people and get them on side which jumps out of the screen .

Q: In today’s world of digital marketing, social media, search engine optimization, community marketing etc, etc, are we finally seeing the “Death of a Salesman”? Where does face-to-face sales fit in?

The reason why personal sales will always be important lies in the ability to understand what is not being said,to be able to read body language etc.

The beauty of the personal sales call is, well, you’re there for a start and this in itself makes a statement and there is a powerful potential for real interaction and contact. The ability to overcome objections etc is greatly enhanced.”

Having said that, he admits that in the last 10 years, the percentage of budget that’s been allocated to sales has been reduced significantly.

The focus has been on identifying customers who can justify those personal visits and the expense involved because the cost per impression of the sales call is the highest of all (vs online advertising, for example, which would generally be the lowest cost per impression).

Q: You’ve had a long, successful and sustainable career. How do you keep fresh, motivated? Stay relevant? All these young punks wanting your job …

I believe in keeping an open mind and I’m always learning. When I have meetings with people, it never occurs to me that I am older. It doesn’t mean I know everything but I can get a sense of what’s important and what’s not. I also surround myself with people who are good at something that I am not.

11. Any philosophy you live by? Mentors who’ve inspired you, guided you?

Michael Issenberg (chairman and COO of Accor Asia Pacific). I am however never satisfied that I’ve maximized my potential. I never feel like I’ve done enough. Perhaps it’s attributable to my parents and their generation – the sacrifices they made – and I am not sure that’s a common thought in today’s generation.

Q: What’s the most over-used word in hospitality?

Personal

Q: What’s the most under-estimated word?

Peaceful

Q: What’s your favourite word?

Key – as in, what do you think is the key issue here? It helps you to focus on the essence.

Q: If you had a chance to do it all over again, what would you do differently?

Nothing. You learn from your mistakes. One mistake I made early on in my career was to move to an individual, family-owned property in New York State for the money. It was the most stressful two years of my life, dealing with the family and the decision-making process. I took a big hit in salary to return to a professional environment.

Q: If your life were a book, which book would you like it to be?

Around The World in 80 Days.

Q: In the movie, Inception, Leonardo di Caprio goes around planting ideas in people’s minds while they are dreaming. What idea would you like to plant in the minds of the students this evening?

Don’t limit your horizon or allow other people to limit it for you.

Check out the full programme for WIT Ideas Lab at ITB Asia, taking place 9-11am on Oct 21 and 22.

 Featured image credit (Group of business people in office building): Ockra/iStock